Tuesday, June 06, 2006

6/6/6 - 2

Here is the second of two wonderful posts today, in celebration of it being 6/6/06.

Lately, I've been somewhat addicted to debating with ultra-fundamentalist religious people on their blogs (and mine). There are just so many gaping holes in their positions that it's hard not to rip them open wider. Plus some of them are downright evil, and I can't keep my mouth shut when I see people writing such morally corrupt things.

It has led to some hilarious conversations, though. Here is one of my favourites. It started when I pointed out that the Bible says that rabbits chew their cud, when they really don't (showing that the Bible is not the infallible word of God). Then a fellow named Tyler brought up this quote:
"Lagomorphs are herbivores that practice coprophagy, the re-ingestion of fecal droppings. [...] These pellets, rich in protein and B vitamins, are re-ingested directly from the anus."

Then I replied with this harsh response:
"The passage said "cheweth his own cud"...even the most generous interpretation would not allow that to be meant as "sucketh up his own shit backeth into his ass". I don't chew with my ass. Do you chew with your ass?"

Because I thought "re-ingested directly from the anus" meant the rabbit sucked it up, directly, with its anus. It actually meant that it eats the poo directly from the anus, with its mouth. Silly me. Too bad, though, because sucking up poo back into its bum would be pretty hilarious. As Sarah said:
"...so wait, do rabbits take their poo after they pooed it and then chew it up in their bums, or what? I can't help but giggle at the image of a rabbit looking behind himself to sit back down on his own poo. What kind of twisted God do we have that would create such a thing?"

poorabbit


In any case, eating poo is different than chewing cud, and the Bible was wrong. Plus, that's just one example. The Bible clearly contradicts itself in several areas, proving that it is not the literal, infallible, word of God.

Here's just one example:

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

So? Who begat Joseph? Jacob or Heli?

And that's just an internal inconsistency. There are also the things that are inconsistent with reality...one big one is the Bible saying the earth is flat (though it can't seem to decide on a shape), and that bats are birds. (more fun problems here)


Satan tempts Jesus (click the pic!)


I'm not bashing the Bible here. What I am bashing is people who take the Bible literally, thinking it is 100% true and using it to guide their entire lives. While the Bible may have some good lessons, it also has some very bad lessons, and some factual errors. Ultimately, we must all use our own brains to make our own decisions about what's good and true, and what's not. If a god created us, then s/he must have given us brains for a reason. Misusing them would be a sin.

32 comments:

Jason said...

Great post and love the pics. I've been following the debate at all those sites. I don't have the energy to participate apart from teasing them.

Phronk said...

Hehe, but you've done some nice teasing. I like how they usually respond seriously to it. Weirdos.

The Stevo in H-Town said...

Nice job, dude...Your description of Satanist makes Ayn Rand, an Atheist, a Satanist...Canna Satanist be a Atheist?...Jus' askin'..

Thanx fer showin' The Stevo how to refer to God ie., "s/he"...that might be more brilliant thanya think...but prob'ly not...Can I use it?

Phronk said...

Satanists were influence by Ayn Rand apparently. And yeah, Satanists (the kind I described here) are all atheists since they reject all that stuff.

I figured since I said "a god", I couldn't be gender specific. Plenty of gods are broads. You can use it for the low low price of a $5 royalty for every use.

Oh and I linked you up SteveO. Thanks for your link too!

The Stevo in H-Town said...

Honored, dude....Check's inda mail.. (or izzat she/male?)...

Nölff said...

I dig it.

Salem said...

How sad is that? Even the Satanists have gone soft.

Seriously, though, I've never understood how one could take the bible as literal truth.

Btw, Satan is looking a lot like Caspar in that picture.

kathy said...

I completely and totally agree with you, about the bible thing and the way that people misuse it to their own ends. Much like I believe that Dani is abusing Deb by claiming to "love" her and only posting what she posts to try and "help" her.

Too much in the history of our race has been lost to claims of religion and who's right and who's wrong. Personally, I *do* believe their is 'God' up there in the sky (or something). Whether or not he is "THE God" from "THE Book" I can't tell. And I don't think that he created everything in 7 days and yadda yadda. I mean, I wasn't there...I don't know anybody who *was* there, I don't know anybody who knows anybody, etc etc.

I think that whoever wrote the Bible (in whichever incarnation you'd care to pick) had some good ideas in the beginning but then after the outline, it got all mucked up. I *do* think there are some good lessons to be taken from there, but I think that is all they are. I think that God made us as he did so that we could find our own paths. He gave us the freedoms to think with our own minds and to believe what we want to believe and I think that ultimately if we are good people, etc etc, that he isn't going to base where we spend eternity on whether or not we said 'Yes' or 'No' to the possibility of his existence. I think he wants us to be good to each other and to be the kindest and best people that we can be.

Just like any parent raising any child (when the parent loves the child of course) the biggest concern is that the child is healthy, and loving, and caring and kind. I think if I were a parent, and my child grew up to be that kind of person, I would like that more than if they didn't like me or never called on the weekends.

Knowing that I put someone out into the world that would ultimately make it a better place would be more important than a) how they got there and b)if they "worshipped" me.

Jason. said...

I've deleted myself. Don't be surprised if some new person shows up soon and starts commenting. LOL.

madamerouge said...

On Sunday, I watched a report on BBC World. Some author was being profiled--an author who took things like the Grand Canyon, and demonstrated how science could "prove" both evolution and creationism. In the report, a poll was mentioned. About 44% of Americans believe creationist theory.

I'm so depressed this week. I think I'm just going to stay in my apartment, watching rerunds of Star Trek TNG.

madamerouge said...

apparently my depression is affecting my spelling

sarah said...

what does begat even mean?!?

I'm glad you're getting such a good response from your clever and tireless retorts. I told you a while ago that I would have given up, but Pronky has prevailed and you've been getting credit too!

also, the bunny chewing poo with it's own bum made me giggle AGAIN!

Butchieboy said...

Hope you had a nice devil day


hail satan

Captain Bee said...

"There are just so many gaping holes in their positions that it's hard not to rip them open wider."

^ No Brokeback.

sirbarrett said...

Yes. I think it is the same as reading any book that we are not absolved of the responsibility to use our brains. Doing otherwise is dangerous. There are also parts of the bible that people ignore -including those who supposedly *believe* in the bible, like the fact that it says of the animals of the sea only those that have scales are clean to eat. You don't see many Christians that have objections to eating escargo, lobster etc. but that's just a cultural thing.

The bible was an oral tradition for thousands of years before it was even ever written down, so either people's memories were a lot clearer in history, or the stories got a little mucked up, or they evolved to say what people wanted them to.

The scary thing is how many people believe the Da Vinci Code compared to the bible.

Apparently many books have cult followings.

Jason said...

Bible = broken telephone.

Phronk said...

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm glad to see that there are some sane people left in the world.

Poo-head said...

There have been book and books written about this stuff....
I will only say this:
Understand that when people refer to the Bible being literal, they are not denying that it does contain some figurative language. However, the figurative language is always intended to convey a literal truth.
For example, when Jesus referred to Himself as a "vine" (John 15:1,) He obviously didn't mean that he had leaves and grapes growing out of his arms...
Rather, He was illustrating the literal truth that his relationship with his disciples can be compared to a vine's relationship with it's branches.
Just because you take the Bible literally does not mean that there are not figures of speech.

Poo-head said...

There have been book and books written about this stuff....
I will only say this:
Understand that when people refer to the Bible being literal, they are not denying that it does contain some figurative language. However, the figurative language is always intended to convey a literal truth.
For example, when Jesus referred to Himself as a "vine" (John 15:1,) He obviously didn't mean that he had leaves and grapes growing out of his arms...
Rather, He was illustrating the literal truth that his relationship with his disciples can be compared to a vine's relationship with it's branches.
Just because you take the Bible literally does not mean that there are not figures of speech.

Jason said...

No, he in fact did think he had leaves and grapes growing out of his arms. Just ask Dani and her congregation.

MyQuestioningMind said...

Phronk you better stop making fun of bunnies! Stevo dissed me and I set him straight!

I never read anything in the Bible about a rabbit chewing its cud but the weird thing is my bunny will sit there and start moving his jaws like he's chewing on something. I always ask him 'are you chewing your cud'?

The Stevo in H-Town said...

Apostolic..."I always ask him 'are you chewing your cud'?"...Whassat?...foreplay 4ya?

Like I said...Hefner made a career outof bangin' 'em...

MyQuestioningMind said...

Stevo, I told you to clean up your act. Now wash that mouth out!

Actually the bunnies are more like substitute kids. I actually go around saying stuff like 'mommy wuvs you'. They just give me a weird look.

Phronk said...

Poo-head: Good point. I guess nobody takes every word literally. But that's yet another problem - how do you distinguish what's a metaphor from what's literal? It may be obvious in the vine example...but what about when it writes of angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth (Isaiah 11:12). Was this a metaphor for the four compass directions, or literally speaking of the earth's corners? Without an a priori way of distinguishing metaphor from fact, the Bible is rather useless as a guidebook.

Bunny: But they're so funny! Sitting there, on their poo, chewing it with their butts. I can understand the substitute kids part though...my dog is pretty much human.

Stevo: If screwing bunnies gets you as old as Hef and still getting daily action, then I'm heading for the forest right now.

The Stevo in H-Town said...

I gotta giveya credit, apostolic...at least comin' back with "Now wash yer mouth out" izza more non-confrontational remark than "Fuck-off, dickwad!!"...which, The Stevo could possibly retort sophomorically with...
Using comebacks like yours...could result in gittin' yer head whopped witha biker-chain ifya ain't careful,dude...jus' sayin'..

MyQuestioningMind said...

I'm a Christian so I don't use the F-word. Plus I have to respect my elders heh heh.

Did you think I was a guy? That's just an old picture I found. If someone wants to hit me w/a biker chain I will try my best to kick their butt but so far no one has bothered.

I think I would be a crappy parent so the bunnies are pretty much my speed. They're also vastly preferable to the dirtbag guys some women attach themselves to just so they can 'have someone'.

Phronk said...

Wait, does the Bible say not to say fuck? I did not know that!

MyQuestioningMind said...

No, it says to not use crass foul language and shove it people's faces like rotting fecal matter.

What is up with people tonight? Major rudeness factor.

Phronk said...

But "crass language" is how people talk. I don't see the point in pretending to be nice uptight civilized people as soon as we're on the internet. It's not rude, just the way people converse.

"Shoving it in people's faces like rotting fecal matter", while containing no naughty words, would be much more offensive to me than "fuck", if I was easily offended.

MyQuestioningMind said...

Yeah but I assume that anything I write on the blogosphere could be read by anyone, including a future employer. It's permanently there for the world to see as opposed to a conversation. I try to err on the side of discretion.

I work with guys all day that say the f word and it doesn't really phase me but somehow reading all this stuff in writing seems a lot harsher. Some people use foul or vulgar language as a weapon. There's a violent, threatening, energy behind it. Kind of like when Jason makes comments about oral sex in response to my posts. It's like 'let's gross out the nice Christian girl'. Now to me, that's really offensive and vile. In the workplace, it's called sexual harassment.

Anyway, that's jes my opinion...

Phronk said...

Ok, I understand your opinion.

I too think excessive or pointless swearing is not necessary (unless it's for humorous effect), but a few fucks and shits can make an otherwise dull piece of writing a bit more spicy. Plus it seems more honest and genuine to me. If someone said "gosh darn it, my dang neighbour just ran over my cat on purpose. Fiddlesticks! What a jerkwad!", it would seem insincere.

And sexual harassment? Come oooon. Jason's just providing some levity to too-serious conversations.

Dirty Birdie said...

I frequently chew with my ass, it's called a thong.